Dom: Hi, and welcome back to the MentorCruise podcast. And in this episode, we’re talking about the topic of personal branding, certainly a topic that’s not uncontroversial. Maybe you remember something from our very first episode.
Dylan: Personal branding is kind of a cringe term,
Dom: Right.
Dylan: But you know, there’s some truth to it.
Dom: And I think it comes down to one side of the spectrum being very against it, like staying authentic at any cost, letting your work speak for itself. And on the other side, you maybe have people overdoing it a little bit and create a very authentic and brandable version of themselves.
Our guest today is luckily somewhere in between Anand Safi is a very experienced engineering manager based in Canada. But if you go to his LinkedIn right now, you’ll see him being invited on podcasts, into use industry panels, being on the board of a startup as well, and acting as a coach and a mentor on a variety.
Networks and mentoring and coaching sites, very similar to Metro crews.
So today let’s take the chance and learn from him directly on how we can use personal branding to open your doors for ourselves and also get access to more opportunities.
Hey, Anna, thank you so much for joining me.
Anand: Nice to be here. Dom. Thank you for having me.
Dom: before we started into the whole topic of personal branding, why don’t you introduce yourself and tell our listeners and everyone that is watching as well, who you all are? What.
Overcoming impostor syndrome
Anand: So I currently, I’m senior engineering manager at Mark 43. It’s a public safety SaaS company. I lead over teams currently focusing on the, where mobility, suite of products Or the past, I think three or four years, I’ve been in this leadership and management track. Before that I spent a decade as a close to a decade as kind of an individual contributor in kind of various roles in the software engineering space.
And I originally did my bachelor’s and master’s in computer science. apart from that, a focus of mine for the past couple of years has been trying to just. Participate a little bit more in kind of the industry.
So whether it’s a peer networking or just kind of helping people in the industry who are trying to navigate the, I would say technical field. So I do that in a variety of ways that is doing a mentorship actually for. Budding software engineers to kind of new engineering leaders across a couple of platforms, my most prominent being mentor crews.
And along with that, I also am a startup advisor and volunteer board members. So either helping founders who are in the pre-seed or seed round finding product market fit or technical feasibility for their idea and then kind of helping nonprofits who are focused on various kind of.
Aligned with as well and values to help them with any strategic direction, actually. So yes, I do have a full time professional day job, but then kind of the, the things I enjoy doing along with that really are the things I mentioned around mentorship, coaching startup advisory, and then kind of just a little bit of both advisory boards as well.
Dom: Amazing. That’s why that’s exactly why I want to talk to you today as well.
Because if we go to your LinkedIn right now, obviously you have a huge accomplishments in your professional career, but there’s a huge, huge list of, you know, mentorship. Coaching board of advisors, a member of the board and so on.
That’s really like, Yeah, it’s it’s very impressive to see what you’re doing outside of work as well. How did that all get started? Like, what was the clicking point for you where you sat? You know, I want to engage outside of my day job.
Anand: Yeah, I think it was, I would say like this was not get, go like in college or just out of college for the first three or five years. It started when probably I would say I was at a point in my career that I was at least a tad a bit over the. Imposter syndrome that uh, what am I doing in this industry? Or does it even belong here?
I’d still continue to have it in, in kind of day in, day out, even in my leadership journey actually. But this was when I, I think I found my niche in terms of, okay, this is what I enjoy doing that is I love being in the engineering space in a product of love men team. And then I also care about kind of building products, customer love.
So. the thing that worked in my favor was always clarity that. I want it to be a customer focused engineer. Actually, I did not want to limit myself only to the technical space and just expanding on the technical track. I also always wanted to do something with a little bit dead end, well product design or more holistic kind of life cycle, maybe because I started as a in the QA space.
And I got really close to kind of the visual testing pieces in that sense. So it was kind of in my second half of my, off my engineering icy journey that I realized, okay, I need to focus a little bit on what I care about and believe in actually, it’s a very straightforward path when you’re on the technical track, that you are a software engineer, you are working towards a senior engineer and then you want to become a tech lead and kind of that path actually.
So I thought, because I probably. A little bit different in my approach on how I approach my engineering actually, and I don’t fit the quite common bill. So I needed to advocate or just kind of showcase the things that I believed in a little bit more. Right. So it goes on to kind of what personal branding would mean for me back then was just that I need to recognize my talent and the unique thing I offer to the company and the team along with the values and competencies.
To kind of showcase them to the outside world, right. There’s a thin line between bragging and self-advocacy. I was just trying to realize on how to kind of present myself in a composed lens to kind of my team peers and the org on this is why I am equally valuable as a software engineering fellow, along with any other engineer who might be headstone focused on the technical track and career progression in that sense.
Dom: I think a lot of people are in that, in those shoes, right. That they’re so deeply inside that technical track or in a certain track that it’s really hard to branch out from that. What, like actionable steps that you actually take when you, when you took that decision to branch out and maybe, you know, start mentoring, what was the first thing that you did to get on?
Anand: So I would say the first three, four years, as I said, right. I goes, I am also still an introvert. Actually. I might speak a lot right now, but I was waiting to be self discovered actually. Right. So I thought, okay. People will eventually realize, or my manager or team will realize that. Oh, okay. Yeah, it does not need to be 100%.
Kind of just progressing on technical architecture, then that next room, I was not a bad engineer. I’m still able to do really good at those things, but I always wanted to do my, that remaining 20% time. I wanted to spend in terms of what is the product looking in terms of the roadmap? What is the design team doing in terms of the UX research or any gorilla testing?
And does. Kind of help feel my thinking as an engineer on what is coming or what the cow, the customers might interact and use it. Right. So I thought people would get this part actually. But I thought like I was hitting a wall in terms of waiting to be, self-discover not progressing in my engineering journey.
So I definitely realize that I need to be a little bit more proactive rather than just kind of thinking that magically something would happen actually. So I started Speaking a lot more in terms of it, my direct manager with my peers in terms of just kind of, this is the things that interests me.
I also started kind of doing skip level meetings with kind of the head of divisions in terms of this is where I think I can help. So it, it was just, again, not hoping that something magical would come out of that, but. You see something, you say something kind of mindset that, okay, let me at least put it out there and we’ll see what happens.
It’s similar to, like you would go to LinkedIn and send a hundred strangers a message that gave me a job I’m out of college. It’s like, at least within the company, they have senior work and know you a little bit. So let’s just give it a try. Actually. I also started practicing again, maybe a buzzword for most, but thanks because Kim’s call is like, I did start practicing radical candor.
In the same, my reviews or peer feedback, if people would criticize me for kind of, okay, you could become more technical or why don’t you take upon that next big refactoring project? I want it to kind of just make sure that I’m being candid in terms of, I did not take upon this because I took care of these other three things actually from an engineering standpoint that might.
Appear as sexy word, but it’s necessary actually in the sense sometimes internet, keep the lights on or just kind of make sure the ability is green, or just make sure that before a customer reports a bug, I am kind of in their mindset and kind of safeguarding in my code to begin with. So I started highlighting those things that kind of where I was spending my time and people could realize actually on what it made sense.
And then I over kind of the later part in the final era. So I started to really. Deep conversations with my manager on kind of an , actionable plan and timeline on how I could switch my focus to like an engineering, leadership and management track in the sense, because that’s, that’s where kind of people taught that.
Okay. I definitely think you have a lot more to offer than simply software engineering. Your technical foundations would be immensely valuable. But this was times where I was a software engineer by also started the Toastmasters club at my company. And so it is a precedent. So the communication collaboration team building motivational morale hiring and retaining top talent, like I would put my hand up first in terms of who from engineering would like to sit on a customer call or a hiring interview.
Right? Not all engineers would like to say. Wednesday at 3:00 PM. And I am deep down in kind of my visual studio code. I need to go attend an interview and come back. I did those things, so we realized over time, okay. This is kind of where I am taking my personal branding and values and belief into a different career track I’m giving you a five minute summary, but that was five years in, in, in a reality, that kind of was things that now I can piece it together on kind of what it meant to be.
Staying authentic while creating a personal brand
Dom: Yeah, it always sounds like an overnight success,
but obviously it took a long time. It sounds like you were starting to build those leadership qualities you know, internally in your company and, and raising your hand more. When did it start to kind of flow outside? Obviously you’re on a lot of podcasts.
You’re, you’re riding a lot. You’re working with external, companies and mentees right now. When did you carry that desire to, to kind of be a leader outside of your company?
Anand: Yeah. I would again say this, this probably took time in terms of building the patients and going or the fact that it’s okay if I fail and it started with just again, me being curious about doing a lot of reading or kind of consuming a lot of resources, right? So whether it’s a book from Marty Cagan or Simon Sinek to kind of using any motivational kind of.
Resources on how to position yourself as a leader and the number one thing that probably, I think all of that them stated in that regard was lead by example in terms of showcasing wellness durability. So that’s kind of where I started in terms of, I think everyone did start somewhere. It’s okay. If I kind of just.
I’m not great at my first dog, but the only way I thought to get better was to through continual industry feedback, you can rely a lot on your peer and support network or do a couple of dry runs with family and friends, but you might not get the same level of constructive criticism or critical feedback that you probably will get from the industry.
Right? So it started with as simply as the at Toastmasters club, I said, right, like trying to give an icebreaker speech. Yeah, in terms of simply things I was most, most comfortable, was so hard to even stand up in front of 20 colleagues where I was working since the past five years. And just say, this is who I am.
This is my childhood. This is kind of my journey. And this is what it was actually, I took two days to prepare this kind of one and a half Bates peach. But after that I thought, okay, that means if I can at least start with either a community that I resonate with, actually. Or a topic that I really feel confident that I don’t need to kind of search and prepare it and not trying to give talks by doing a lot of research on.
This is the next big thing in tech, or this is something totally kind of EIN M L and I am trying to look at five sources and piecing something together. This is just me being woke a lot of what I already experienced around bellwether sweat. So then I moved on to kind of just meet ups in New York city.
And just talking a little bit about kind of little things in terms of the tested Liddy and testing practices to kind of giving my first conference talk. When I moved from a individual contributor to a manager journey that is just. What was the motivation behind? Because this came from a direct experience.
I, in my engineering journey, I always thought I wanted to be a manager. I think that’s more pay more authority I can hire and fire people, more power dynamics actually. Everything went kind of down south when I was in my management journey, the first 90 days in terms of the entire kind of premise that is in your head is, is way different than what kind of the motivation should be and what the trade-offs would be off that role.
So I started speaking about that and then one thing led to another actually. So I think the first three to five were really hard, but then the next 25, I don’t even know. How kind of not easy, but how quickly and smooth they are actually or the pastoral mine’s actually.
Dom: I, mentioned at the beginning that I think you have a very strong brand, but it sounds like it came from, you know, you just sharing your experience very publicly. Did you ever think across this whole process that you’re building this like personal brand and you’re, you’re becoming like a well-known face or was it just the desire as you say, to do more than just stay in your lane?
Anand: I would say over the past year, I have had three instances and kind of similar conversations in terms of offline maybe, or off the record, people ask me like, so it seems you do have a pretty set kind of day to day role, and then you’re leading teams and you’re pretty well worse.
Why are you doing this extra thing? What is your end game? Like, are you going to. Tomorrow say, oh, I have quit that role. And I’m going to start my professional coaching thing as a kind of a freelancer, or are you going to do something other like, so I would be honest that this whole kind of linkage between what I’ve been doing versus what I.
Consider now personal branding as people ask me is, is very recent for me. Right? It’s the past 12 to 18 months actually in that regard. And maybe I’m thinking a little bit more than, okay. Rather than be doing 20 unstructured things. I can probably steer my brand towards an area or three to four things, actually that I think I really can help the mass actually or work with them actually.
So. What has happened over the past 18 months? If you look at all my articles, talks or anything, is it’s jumping from one thing to the other, right. I was going through the transition from IC to management. I spoke a lot about that once I was there, I realized I should talk about what all things are experienced as a software engineer and the pitfalls.
Now I talk a lot about what should you do or not do in your first six months to a year as a manager? Three months from now, I might be in a senior or an executive leader, went out of my talk about what are the things you should do going from a yam to kind of a senior IAM to a director or whatever that kind of career path ends up being actually.
Right. So it’s only, now that I put out so much kind of, material how’d that I’m trying to go back to the drawing board and see, does it map something to the greater good? Can I structure it in a better way that this. Mian and Safia as a person, I speak and connect with folks in the industry through various forums and methods.
And these are the things I genuinely care about currently up until now. It has simply been if I believe in strongly in something, or if I’ve experienced a deep learning moment in my career. How do I get the message out there actually, and that’s why I reach out to folks. I reach out kind of through my articles on medium or just kind of through other publications.
Actually, she was just say that, let me get my thoughts kind of concise and put it out there. And that are common that might show up on a Friday 1:00 AM for someone in Philly pine saying that we read your thing and it totally resonates. That is a Euro camomile, right? Some thing is kind of going right on what I’m doing actually.
So that’s why this whole personal branding thing. I don’t have a great answer because I did not work backwards in this regards because I was doing all of this. It is leading to some form of personal branding, which I cannot deny. Absolutely. And I’m more excited on what I might kind of position myself in the next 18 months with this.
Dom: you know, I feel like personal branding is a bit that the whole term is off putting or off turning for a lot of people is it may be because of those people that work forward and, you know, try to kind of adhere to the most in demand things instead of their own experiences that it’s maybe getting a bit of a bad rep.
Anand: It can swing both ways, right? It can sound a very commercial, catchy sales and market. Tell them that you’re trying to just get your foot in the door and say that I can deeply help you with this. Look out of the expertise and experience. And then. By the way, this is the parent that these are all my subscription models and then listen talking, which is not, not kind of bad.
Right? I do that. I do have kind of platforms where I do get compensated for my time, effort and money and valuable, right? So that session per hour session fee took, as we discussed a decade worth of kind of blood, sweat, tears to kind of form that. Opinion or just kind of best practice to share with someone on kind of what they might do in the situation.
there is nothing wrong in your stat, but I think as you said, right, that the, any form of branding means that you’re trying to push your motto forward, actually, which people just need to understand that. It’s similar, but in a different sense, you’re trying to push your values and beliefs forward to just kind of help the industry because you’re already been through that journey, right.
There is oftentimes less material gains from this sort of personal branding versus kind of any. Commercial branding or kind of any other things that we might interpret in that sense. Right. So I’m trying to make a personal brand simply because I can be just a word more actually. And it’s easier for people who are looking for these things rather than stumbling upon magically or hoping they do stumble upon kind of what I’m saying.
It’s easier to build that bridge that they can discover it sooner. If I have every single kind of Todd and artifact put out a noodle, single umbrella actually, or some form of person.
Dom: Yeah.
And in that case, it’s also different from a commercial brand, which obviously has the goal to kind of commercially amplify your values to personal branding, which is to, to amplify your personal values and just making, putting them out there basically, and amplifying what you stand for.
Anand: Yep. 100%, right? Like commercial branding. The whole term, I actually was curious and I was looking it up two weeks back brand as a term, started with livestock that was simply tagging livestock and saying ownership of property because it’s just really common in kind of their farmland land to kind of lose a kind of count or just know what belongs to us.
So It does depend on your intended outcome? In the sense, like, I don’t think personal branding always needs a logo or in that sense, I CA I go with my headshot for 95% of the time.
But I think from a commercial branding standpoint, if I were to say it right, that I am setting up my coaching and leadership practice might, I might get kind of a little bit creative and set up a logo because it depends on what you want to do with That branding right. Branding is, is now branding is meant to indicate kind of a combination of your message and the kind of offering.
So the message might be that I want to help people, but that is not enough right. In my commercial brand and in my personal brand, I can say that I want to help people. That’s my mission. Probably where a logo helps if it’s just steering people towards a, more of like a product based offering, right? Like I’m offering a suite of courses or a class, or you can buy this book from me, versus a personal branding can simply be, I’m still doing a lot of.
Ad hoc service-based offering right book this one on one with me, or just kind of let me help you with an introductory session, or if you’re really stuck in kind of a, to the point of resume review, I, if, if somebody was in dire need, I would gladly spend 20 minutes with them. I doubt if I said this is my academy, then I would be able to kind of say, okay, yes, just, this is my calendar living book 20 minutes.
Right? Approach it in a much more product and business centric way actually on how do we make this a transaction versus this can be ad hoc. Let’s do it. And then the process, let’s see if this can be done as a part of the transaction. So I feel that if possible, and if you are able to and willing, I can also be compensated in some form, but I think for business ones, the focus is a little bit more in terms of.
Driving enterprise value. The enterprise is a very big term for just the kind of commercial branding we are talking about, but establishing some form of market presence and value building. And that often is tied to some form of monetary gains actually.
Personal Branding as a door opener
Dom: Aside from all the monetary gains and kind of the monetary income that comes from a strong personal brand. Have you experienced, you know, audit doors and opportunities opening up to you since you’ve gone more public with.
Anand: 100%. Yeah, I think the first 10 I had to scout for it transitioned to then me scouting the next five. And now it continues to decline where it’s easy for people to discover me. Right. A simple example is I started writing on medium. Couple of years back actually, then it moved to local and now there are platforms like hash no-till feed.
A new one coming out every three months, which is, which is great. I definitely like more players in the market mindset actually, but all these new platforms are looking at co-creators I think. Who contributed in a specific area of expertise where they want to start kind of bootstrap it actually, and looking for experts.
So I get these very usual, LinkedIn inbound, like every week in terms of this, isn’t a new platform starting. We have identified you as a industry expert. What do you like to contribute on those things? So that is probably much on an automated mode. Similarly openly, I would say Metro cruise was my first and still continues to be my most prolific mentorship platform.
That has caused so much benefit to me actually or the past six to nine months in terms of these other manager platform that are come out actually. Because I was able to leverage Maricruz and work with so many diverse and geographical kind of mentor mentees and had the reviews that kind of position me as somebody who was credible, right.
A lot of people offer a mentorship, but to give your heart and soul, and kind of, maybe even that gets you there, but to really make a difference that somebody takes the time to review you. Just stand out in that sense, that, that led me to now being approached by cohorts of kind of startup founders or industry leaders, or just kind of an engineering cohorts to say, would you like to be a judge in our hackathon or would you like to be a mentor for a smaller cohort period of time where you work with just one individual in pair?
Right. Uh, After a point as I grow in my role, it can sound like this is my job, but this is what I all I’m seeing is my 20% time. I really focus hard on my 80% I, with my teams and my company. So the, I cannot keep up with the continued external outreach and going to the industry. Right. So that’s why. Did that very actually for the first three or four years chose luckily with the right kind of partnerships and platforms like mentor, cruise, and kind of medium or diesel or a couple of others, internal publications and mentorship that now I can almost Hold that I can still continue to inspire and empower the next set of talent and kind of innovators by doing 50% less because of kind of the the industry reaching out to me.
Dom: Yeah.
it sounds like there’s so much coming in, you know, with concentrating to 20% of your time, what are the opportunities that you’re looking for the most, like in terms of, of mentoring or giving talks, doing podcasts. What are the things that you’re gonna pick out from the masses now that you actually enjoy?
Anand: I would say, I will also like to say I am. I’m trying to definitely embrace writing, probably podcasts as a number one and writing as the second talks are tricky. And our third because of. That takes real time and effort on my side to prepare slides and content and not knowing, given my. 550 to 500 people, attendance.
What will resonate with them actually. So I still don’t have the confidence or I don’t believe I can do justice time and quality wise to an industry talk in that sense. And that’s why I focus a lot on a one-on-one mentorship and podcasts actually, but I have 30 minutes. We’re doing it live. I can be much more.
Thinking on my foot and kind of compose my answers rather than to prepare a talk that can resonate with masses and it will be there forever. Like I just want to make sure, like, I am still a little bit more. Purge or kind of a credible in my approach to start giving keynotes or industry talks. I said, I don’t think I’m there yet, honestly.
So that’s why I do a lot one-on-one with people and I think I connect well kind of on a one-on-one level. That’s the feedback I got as well. It’s being an, you say like, oh, you don’t speak up much in team meetings. They’re always silent and observing you how great insights when you come back and you tell all these great things and one-on-one central idea that this could have been done, or this is where we should focus.
Maybe that’s kind of how I am as a person. I don’t think. It’s strictly choose one versus the other I’ll need to do a mix of everything actually, but I am much more currently chill as, as much possible lean towards one-on-one mentorship and podcasts and writing in my free time, rather than talks kind of just a little bit on the back burner,
Dom: basically things that where you can invest your time very effectively and still reach, you know, a large audience or where we can basically. Your your
strengths.
Anand: docs have a huge impact, but this 5, 6, 10 hours I spend researching my, my kind of Experienced hearts and industry best practice. And I’m putting in the talk still not knowing how it’s going to be pursued or whether it has the impact worth is trying to help 10 people in five hours of those mentorship sessions.
Actually, I still, at least I personally think that that’s a little bit more valuable for now. Yeah.
Dom: Yeah.
and definitely your reviews and your feedback on, on metric crews and all those auto networks show it that it’s a, it’s a good investment and you’re clearly making impact in those one-on-one sessions.
So let’s do a little thought project. you know, you, you already were in a leadership position basically, or you were looking to, to enter that leadership position.
If I am earlier in my career, maybe one of your direct reports for example, what can I do maybe not coming from a position of authority to get more of those chances and maybe build my personal brand over, over time. As I progressed.
Anand: I would say there are two parts of this, right? One is you are trying to. Just just start kind of being more vocal and, and speaking about kind of the things that you believe in within your company and your network versus one, you are probably willing to make an industry move to kind of make just kind of a messaging to the masses and kind of seeing that you can work with people in the industry for the first one, I would say definitely trust your peer and internal company network.
Actually there are a plethora of opportunities that you might not even realize. the most kind of, tricky thing in, in software engineering we say is often, oh, there’s not enough documentation. It could be as simple as starting with documentation. If you are able to put the things that you really know and well kind of believe in from that area of your experience or expertise, and you can become a better writer that translates.
immensely into when you need to write kind of articles or just speak on these kinds of forums in terms of personal branding. So it could be as simple as in kind of your role currently, starting with the writing, kind of some formal documentation, or just kind of asking kind of your peers and, and even your trusted network in terms of where do you think I could spend better time actually? Right. Peer feedback is a very tricky process. Companies and teams are tills still trying to perfect, actually. And you and I going through the same with my account, my teams are, or anything in general. But if we are able to crack that, I think there’s immense value and it amplifies the growth of yourself as an individual in the right direction, actually.
So that is starting in, in that regards. And then I would say, try for organic growth and patients, right? Like whatever we discussed multiple times. So we mentioned that it takes years. It’s not days or weeks actually in this. So I would say definitely a four organic growth and make kind of. Material or kind of success in, in any form, like a secondary thing, rather than a, at least willing to change one process, one thing, or kind of inspire one individual.
That’s the bare metrics you start with actually. And then you’ll see the one becomes 10 and the 10 to a hundred is really easy. In that sense, right, there are a lot of, kind of. Tools tricks, tips and materials, actually, that can help you optimize. But I don’t think that can help you set the foundations.
Right? We are currently talking about setting the foundation stage that we’ll need to kind of be a little bit more through seeking. Input inwards actually putting in the Drudge work. There is no easy way also to set that up, doing that Drudge work and then being patient with kind of just the first time you see someone, the reciprocation that what you said makes sense.
I’ve not personally experienced, but I can understand why you were in this situation and you did what you did or. I did not even realize I was in the situation until you told me and kind of you stated it that way. So wait for that moment, it will come and happen. As long as you are putting quality work out there and kind of reviewing it with your trusted network.
Dom: Yeah.
Patience is always difficult, especially I feel like early in your career, it’s a skill you you’ll learn over time. I think a lot of people. Are all almost scared, but at least worried about, you know, sticking out from the crowd and kind of starting we’re just kind of things. Did you feel like there were any like dangers or drawbacks of starting with this or do you foresee anything that could happen if people start, you know, investing more time into this and, and, and kind of standing up and speaking up more often?
Anand: Absolutely. The first danger I personally experienced is the. Temptation to resist and not overdo it actually. along with patients, another thing we need to talk about is consistency. Right. And that is where I’m going. I have been in those situations where I feel okay. Today’s is Friday light on meetings.
Write me write five articles and then disappear for the next four and a half months actually. So that is just kind of overdoing it in the wrong sense. Like what exactly what I’m thinking. I’m maybe too much over the place in general, five articles on five different things, all things.
Is this thing that I’m putting out a building block towards ultimately some message or kind of a learning experience that I want to share with my community and kind of the folks that I connect with actually. So put some thought into diving headfirst and don’t overdo it actually just like pace it out in, in good sense.
Another very important danger is ice. I mentioned that. Probably start with your safe space, right? Like, okay. You have experienced in this, your expertise, your personally went through this, but again, there’s a difference between balancing that versus coming out as annoyed, all or kind of a bragging attitude, right?
You don’t want your messaging to appear like. This is the one single true opinion in the world. Everything else is BS and this kind of doesn’t matter. So that whole confusing or with the noise all and bragging mess actually can just can pose a real danger. So trying to be pragmatic and kind of being vulnerable that these are my finite set of experiences might or might not resonate where it says.
We say that five things I wish I knew as a software engineer versus five things that will make every software engineer succeed. That’s kind of the messaging re reads whole lot differently, actually. And then the last piece, as I said is definitely try to make this as much of values oriented and selfless as possible.
Early on. If you start thinking that there is some form of net new gain or a material outcome, or just a personal branding thing tied to it you would always be chasing a moving target, right? Like in that sense, so. Do your best, see what it can shape up to be. Right. I just wrote one article on medium, not knowing that I could speak on podcasts, being an introvert or kind of having this accent kind of coming from the sub-continent to have the confidence, to speak to you folks.
Right? So just lead it shape up in any form based on kind of what people in the industry are curious, rather than trying to say that this is my set goal. By end of the year, I need to appear on 15 podcasts, no matter what those teams are, I’m just going to appear there and say some items and then work backwards.
This is when I feel like you need to. Navigate and, and kind of find the destination rather than this is my destination and work back because there are many alternate drugs, as you said, right. It could be talks, mentorship, podcasts doing a course to writing a book in the future who knows, like whatever that could shape up to be.
Staying consistent
Dom: That’s a great insight. overdoing it as one danger, but obviously. Consistency is kind of the other side of the metal, right. That people actually need to, if they want to invest 20% of their time, they kind of need to do it. What’s your method or technique that you use to stay consistent, but also not overdue.
Anand: I think it is just trying to stick to the forums that I kind of have come to a belief that they continue to inspire and are kind of in their sense. Like there are many platforms that come and, and kind of. Shiny or fancy, but after a point they require a lot of upkeep. Actually, I need you to do 50 things in order to kind of publish one thing or I need to, there are platforms which kind of make me become a marketer in the sense that I need to set up my audience, do my outreach, post this link on 50 places and everything right where it says I give example of mentor crews, where I have to bring my best self in the digital space there and the matchmaking or the discovery happens because of how the platform is set up. Right. That has huge benefit on where I am spending my time in the right direction in the sense. So just the tools and techniques, I often rely on where I can spend my time trying to put.
Content and kind of my toss out, rather than all this setup, boilerplate and upkeep in the sense like, oh, you just wrote an article, but now you need to do this 50 things to get it out there and make sure you also kind of do these other things and keep on doing every week only then you will probably be at the top of the funnel in that sense.
In some form. I definitely liked doing that and I should also do that. Like it’s, it’s like, if I am putting the thought out, I need to self-advocate and kind of do my bid, but I would rather spend my time on platforms or mediums, right? Like say Twitter or LinkedIn where I can put it out there and then. I don’t need to kind of spend a ton of time trying to cross post or promote that in 500 other places to people that care and believe in will discover or kind of my network.
We resonate with that actually. The other. Technique is just, I would say start small, look at your local Toastmasters chapter. If you’re looking at a public speaking, look at your local meetup. If you’re looking into kind of a particular topic, there are so many slackers. For anything that people are interested in engineering, leadership or technology reach out to me, I am on like 15 slack groups and five that I use the most, which is also a safe space.
And they have channels in terms of just kind of peer review support feedback, and those kinds of things. So use kind of those things where you are establishing a core audience, actually in the sense, and then you can think about right. Do not think that I need to make a grand entry into this industry.
So I’m going to register. 10 CFPs call for proposals for like industry talks actually you might maybe get in one, actually I deleted do what that you have some form of kind of credibility or past experience giving these, but if you’re in there, like that’s probably you’re taking too big of a gamble or a risk actually.
So I would say start small is definitely one thing that I, I go for. Do you say, like, I’m talking a lot about the software engineering side actually, but if people are more into a product or kind of off, or those kinds of landscapes, internal, a little bit commercial branding and Shopify and Etsy and those stores, I use built platforms.
So that is where I say, like similarly to these technical platforms, there are a lot of commercials. E-commerce ruin platforms that also are important. In the sense I’m, I it’s my personal mission to explore something or the next 12 months to see if I can connect the two, if I can create a minimal product based on these engineering leadership and mentorship, and then plug it into kind of some form of Shopify Etsy thing to just upskill myself on what it might mean to reach a broader audience and, and trying out the whole e-commerce landscape right Simply started with quotes of engineering, leadership stickers too. Who knows kind of what else in the sense. So yeah.
Dom: That’s amazing. That was actually my, my next and kind of last question, which is you’ve already done so much and, and you know, what works for you what’s basically next for you. Uh, Hat what’s on the roadmap. What are mediums are there that you’re yet to explore?
What are maybe mediums that are just coming up? Kind of on the landscape what’s what’s there that you haven’t explored yet, but really would really want.
Anand: Idealistically. I’ve seen people from here progressed to become officially coach certified and then start, they’re kind of on a little freelance practice to the premise of writing a book and everything. So I think that is still very far fetched for me. I’ve really. Goals or just, I would say milestones to accomplish in my personal life as well.
Just starting a family, buying a house, like many of these things. I doubt I can kind of do a complete 180, just, just yet in the sense. So that’s why this is, this is one where I can proudly say. I honestly, for this particular part, I don’t keep a, this is my next ultimate thing that needs to happen.
Right. There are goals where it says kind of I would say end state, I have a goal to read more books, or I have a goal to speak on five industry leading podcasts, or I have a goal to mentor people for. Diverse geographies or kind of diverse identification, actually, that’s kind of the goals. So those are some of the next things that I want to do using my current practices.
And I speak about them very kind of openly in terms of anyone I talk to, but I don’t have kind of, this is that next one big thing that I’m going to do and put my name on to it actually.
Dom: Amazing. So I think that’s a good place to end it. Thank you so much for joining me. I think that was super insightful. Also just hearing your journey from your place as a software engineer, going into engineering management and building your brand with it. But also hearing about all the challenges and opportunities you were facing.
Obviously you’re on Metro cruise. You’re one of our top rated mentors and we’re going to link your profile in the description and everywhere else where this podcast can be seen or listened to. Did you have any other places that we can follow up with you follow your journey? Where are you most active?
Online?
Anand: Uh, I would say LinkedIn is kind of my one stop shop. Now I do use Twitter and everything, but then Twitter can really quickly mix with world affairs and other things that I’m keeping up with in the industry. And it’s difficult. It’s out of the 22, it’s three are around the professional thing and six around the other kind of world affairs.
So I would say LinkedIn is the number one place where I do cross posts, kind of anything that I’ve done in the industry. And it’s really easy to connect. I do. Absolutely. Make it a point to look at every inbound message and kind of respond or there there’s something I can do, or I can suggest them or connect them to someone who can help.
Dom: So we’re going to link your LinkedIn as well in the description and then people hopefully can follow up or look at your, your journey in personal branding, engineering, management, and all that you do. Thank you so much, for joining me.
Anand: Thank you so much, Dom, for having me. It was absolutely a pleasure talking. Thank you.
Dom: Yeah. Likewise.